We are planning to respray our Rover 12 as part of its restoration.
We'd like to do something other than plain old black. But at the same time keep vaguely to a period colour scheme.
What colour schemes did these cars come in? I'm interested in both the early cars and the late ones.
Any pictures of your cars for inspiration would be nice.
And a very important question. What colours were the bits you don't see? I mean engine bay, inner wings. Etc.
Were they the same colour as the bodywork? Or a standard colour such as black, or grey.
And any advice on paint type. I've used cellulose, 2k and water based before. Given free reign I'd go with 2k. But willing to listen to opinions as this is by far the oldest car I've ever restored.
Paint schemes
Re: Paint schemes
This reply has a small bit of fact and a large amount of personal opinion but hopefully it might raise some things to think about and draw your own conclusions. Original standard colours : Black, blue, red, grey, green. The Rover colours did, in my opinion, tend towards the drab end of these shades and I'm saying that as someone who would be fairly happy with all older cars being black. I can't say about Rover in particular but it was the case in the 30s that most better cars could be painted in colours of the customer's choice, at extra cost, but I would have doubted that such flexibility might have been possible in 1946 and 47 simply because of the demand for any vehicle.
The problem with colours is that fashions change and what is considered a good choice today may be completely out 20 years later. However, a trend with many types of restoration in the past 30 years has been the return of items to their original colour schemes and an appreciation that what was original is now the state to be aiming for. If an item is for sale and can be described as being "as original in all respects" then the chances are that will bring in a level of interest beyond that of the "good but wrong". Vehicle paintwork is a particular problem because of the work involved in making a really super job of it. First class paintwork that has to be paid for doesn't come cheap today and it is likely to become much more expensive in the future. A job which has been done with all the rubbers off, all door shuts correct, all hard to reach parts painted correctly with no overspray etc. is likely to attract interest on both the showground and the saleroom.
Of course, selling may well be the last thing on your mind and if you want your P2 to be in Black Tulip or Burnt Orange, that's entirely your choice but if you don't have any particular preference (or your wife/partner /significant other doesn't) then an original scheme well carried out will probably earn you the respect today of those who know and the interest of those who may like to have one - eventually.
If you plan on using your car quite a bit, please consider the state of the roads. I used to joke that the difference between a good paint job and a poor one was a journey along the A75 near where I live. I remember a group of French enthusiasts staying nearby on a tour and one owner lamenting the machine gunned appearance of his exceptionally expensive Mercedes due to the "surface dressing" (loose stones to you and me) on the roads. It's worth thinking, if you're planning on being out and about, of a finish that can be more easily touched in or refinished to match if needed. For that reason, although some metallic or lacquered finished can be very attractive, they can also be exceptionally difficult to match on smallish areas.
I used to know two old car dealers in the Midlands and they both wouldn't touch a pre war car with a 2 pack paint job. Times have probably changed
and there is a lot to say that's good about 2 pack but I just mention that in the passing. What I have noticed is that some paint people seem to use it as a substitute for proper preparation. From a few feet away, the car looks super but closer up, under the surface you can see that instead of having been sanded down with very fine/ultra fine paper, it's actually been left about 120/180 (well, so the scratches would appear!) and the high surface shine and evenness of the hard paint finish masks this until a closer examination is carried out. Probably a 2 pack finish with the same amount of care taken in the preparation as would have been done with cellulose would be a really good job although the question of whether 2 packs' brilliant shine can be made to look like the rather more deep and rich shine of cellulose remains one to deliberate over.
I'm really surprised with some cars that turn up for sale where the interior colour is so wrong for the exterior. It usually looks as if the car has either had a very good interior, whether original or retrimmed, but the exterior has been maybe a bit dull and the decision has been taken to "jazz it up a bit" but with a very mismatching colour to the inside. I find it hard to think of any reasonable justification for having the two mismatching on this type of car. It may be a preference on one person's part but I doubt it would be something that a wider audience would be happy with. Black cars had brown interiors, red,red; blue or grey,blue;green,green.
Whatever colour you decide on, can I finally suggest that if it isn't one from a standard range like RAL or the BS colours, please ensure a note is left somewhere on the car and in its records of what the colour actually is. Although there is clever equipment now that can analyse colours, it is a great help if the proper source and name of the colour can be written down for someone in the future to refer to. It needs to be exactly what has been mixed up with the tints used by the painter in case one of them has been superceded.
I don't think this will necessarily have done much to advance the thoughts you have already but I am sure your car will be a further delight of another P2 on the roads and giving satisfaction to its owner.
The problem with colours is that fashions change and what is considered a good choice today may be completely out 20 years later. However, a trend with many types of restoration in the past 30 years has been the return of items to their original colour schemes and an appreciation that what was original is now the state to be aiming for. If an item is for sale and can be described as being "as original in all respects" then the chances are that will bring in a level of interest beyond that of the "good but wrong". Vehicle paintwork is a particular problem because of the work involved in making a really super job of it. First class paintwork that has to be paid for doesn't come cheap today and it is likely to become much more expensive in the future. A job which has been done with all the rubbers off, all door shuts correct, all hard to reach parts painted correctly with no overspray etc. is likely to attract interest on both the showground and the saleroom.
Of course, selling may well be the last thing on your mind and if you want your P2 to be in Black Tulip or Burnt Orange, that's entirely your choice but if you don't have any particular preference (or your wife/partner /significant other doesn't) then an original scheme well carried out will probably earn you the respect today of those who know and the interest of those who may like to have one - eventually.
If you plan on using your car quite a bit, please consider the state of the roads. I used to joke that the difference between a good paint job and a poor one was a journey along the A75 near where I live. I remember a group of French enthusiasts staying nearby on a tour and one owner lamenting the machine gunned appearance of his exceptionally expensive Mercedes due to the "surface dressing" (loose stones to you and me) on the roads. It's worth thinking, if you're planning on being out and about, of a finish that can be more easily touched in or refinished to match if needed. For that reason, although some metallic or lacquered finished can be very attractive, they can also be exceptionally difficult to match on smallish areas.
I used to know two old car dealers in the Midlands and they both wouldn't touch a pre war car with a 2 pack paint job. Times have probably changed
and there is a lot to say that's good about 2 pack but I just mention that in the passing. What I have noticed is that some paint people seem to use it as a substitute for proper preparation. From a few feet away, the car looks super but closer up, under the surface you can see that instead of having been sanded down with very fine/ultra fine paper, it's actually been left about 120/180 (well, so the scratches would appear!) and the high surface shine and evenness of the hard paint finish masks this until a closer examination is carried out. Probably a 2 pack finish with the same amount of care taken in the preparation as would have been done with cellulose would be a really good job although the question of whether 2 packs' brilliant shine can be made to look like the rather more deep and rich shine of cellulose remains one to deliberate over.
I'm really surprised with some cars that turn up for sale where the interior colour is so wrong for the exterior. It usually looks as if the car has either had a very good interior, whether original or retrimmed, but the exterior has been maybe a bit dull and the decision has been taken to "jazz it up a bit" but with a very mismatching colour to the inside. I find it hard to think of any reasonable justification for having the two mismatching on this type of car. It may be a preference on one person's part but I doubt it would be something that a wider audience would be happy with. Black cars had brown interiors, red,red; blue or grey,blue;green,green.
Whatever colour you decide on, can I finally suggest that if it isn't one from a standard range like RAL or the BS colours, please ensure a note is left somewhere on the car and in its records of what the colour actually is. Although there is clever equipment now that can analyse colours, it is a great help if the proper source and name of the colour can be written down for someone in the future to refer to. It needs to be exactly what has been mixed up with the tints used by the painter in case one of them has been superceded.
I don't think this will necessarily have done much to advance the thoughts you have already but I am sure your car will be a further delight of another P2 on the roads and giving satisfaction to its owner.
Re: Paint schemes
I've got experience of painting and as these are my own restorations I take the time and effort to prep well. I do find 2k easier to use and more stable long term.
My 2k goes on like a mirror finish. I can honestly say it's superior to what a higher end car manufacturer would achieve.
That in itself is potentially an issue for recreating a totally authentic look. As the original paint would never have been to that sort of standard. I'm quite comfortable with that.
The car is actually my daughter's restoration project. So she will be choosing the colour scheme. But she's quite happy to go with something that looks correct for the period.
My 2k goes on like a mirror finish. I can honestly say it's superior to what a higher end car manufacturer would achieve.
That in itself is potentially an issue for recreating a totally authentic look. As the original paint would never have been to that sort of standard. I'm quite comfortable with that.
The car is actually my daughter's restoration project. So she will be choosing the colour scheme. But she's quite happy to go with something that looks correct for the period.
Re: Paint schemes
Rover colours were all single colour with the possibility of a coastline in a contrasting colour
The links below will take you to 3 brochures, 1939, 1946 and 1947 Export
1939 Brochure
1946 Brochure
1947 Export Brochure
There is also some information in this 1937 Salesman's booklet and this 1939 Salesman's booklet
The links below will take you to 3 brochures, 1939, 1946 and 1947 Export
1939 Brochure
1946 Brochure
1947 Export Brochure
There is also some information in this 1937 Salesman's booklet and this 1939 Salesman's booklet
Re: Paint schemes
Hi,
Just to add to the excellent advice already provided; in my experience, 2k paint is the only practical option now that all the lead has been removed from cellulose paint. Modern cellulose gives a great finish but it just doesn’t last like it used to. I’ve just had my Tourer repainted in 2k as the car was so much better than the cellulose finish I had given it eight years ago. That said, I gave the primer coats on my Saloon several months to harden off and the finish has remained reasonably good. But who wants to spend a year painting a car?
Both my cars were stripped down completely so that each panel could be painted inside and out before reassembly. I’m unsure how original this approach is but my concern was to ensure the metal was as well protected as possible and it is so much nicer when looking under a wing or bonnet to see body coloured paint plus this also ensures that the beading strips, window rubbers and glass etc are free of overspray.
Regarding the colours; neither of my cars wears original livery. I reasoned that, since I’m footing the bill and doing the work, I can choose the colour I will enjoy the most. I suppose my logic is a akin to enjoying the luxury of wool car mats, rather than saving them for the next owner by laying down rubber! Of course there is no denying that our fine Rovers are a piece of history and ownership carries with it a degree of responsibility not to spoil things for future owners. With that in mind, colour schemes should, in my view, be in the spirit of the original if the original colour is not to your liking.
My Tourer is bright ‘Italian Racing Red, as it has been since the early 50s and has received very positive praise at shows since repainting in that colour. I do wonder if it would cut a similar dash in it’s original drab maroon? Likewise my Saloon is very attractive in ‘Light Aircraft Grey’ with contrasting red leather seats. I opted for this after a much younger colleague said my car was nice but it did look like a hearse! Knowing that preWar Rovers are not as highly sought by the younger generation as they deserve to be I felt a more cheerful colour scheme would make it more appealing.
Fair to say that the ‘holy grail’ for any classic car owner is to have one exactly as it left the factory when new. Such vehicles are greatly admired and will attract the best prices. However, this level of perfection usually comes at a cost that cannot be recovered so the restoration challenge for the average owner is to create the best car you can at a price you can afford, mindful of the resale value!
Good luck with your car and it is really impressive that you have a daughter with a keen interest in Rovers. Some progress pictures as your restoration continues would be of great interest.
Just to add to the excellent advice already provided; in my experience, 2k paint is the only practical option now that all the lead has been removed from cellulose paint. Modern cellulose gives a great finish but it just doesn’t last like it used to. I’ve just had my Tourer repainted in 2k as the car was so much better than the cellulose finish I had given it eight years ago. That said, I gave the primer coats on my Saloon several months to harden off and the finish has remained reasonably good. But who wants to spend a year painting a car?
Both my cars were stripped down completely so that each panel could be painted inside and out before reassembly. I’m unsure how original this approach is but my concern was to ensure the metal was as well protected as possible and it is so much nicer when looking under a wing or bonnet to see body coloured paint plus this also ensures that the beading strips, window rubbers and glass etc are free of overspray.
Regarding the colours; neither of my cars wears original livery. I reasoned that, since I’m footing the bill and doing the work, I can choose the colour I will enjoy the most. I suppose my logic is a akin to enjoying the luxury of wool car mats, rather than saving them for the next owner by laying down rubber! Of course there is no denying that our fine Rovers are a piece of history and ownership carries with it a degree of responsibility not to spoil things for future owners. With that in mind, colour schemes should, in my view, be in the spirit of the original if the original colour is not to your liking.
My Tourer is bright ‘Italian Racing Red, as it has been since the early 50s and has received very positive praise at shows since repainting in that colour. I do wonder if it would cut a similar dash in it’s original drab maroon? Likewise my Saloon is very attractive in ‘Light Aircraft Grey’ with contrasting red leather seats. I opted for this after a much younger colleague said my car was nice but it did look like a hearse! Knowing that preWar Rovers are not as highly sought by the younger generation as they deserve to be I felt a more cheerful colour scheme would make it more appealing.
Fair to say that the ‘holy grail’ for any classic car owner is to have one exactly as it left the factory when new. Such vehicles are greatly admired and will attract the best prices. However, this level of perfection usually comes at a cost that cannot be recovered so the restoration challenge for the average owner is to create the best car you can at a price you can afford, mindful of the resale value!
Good luck with your car and it is really impressive that you have a daughter with a keen interest in Rovers. Some progress pictures as your restoration continues would be of great interest.
- Attachments
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Tony Gilbert
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport
P1 12 Tourer
P2 12 6 Light Saloon
Discovery 3
Discovery Sport
Re: Paint schemes
This is my contribution. You can follow the other chapters describing the painting step by step, part by part.
https://lulis.org/2012/11/01/26-453-%d7 ... 94-%d7%94/
10 years have passed since painting, and this is how the car looks today:
https://lulis.org/2012/11/01/26-453-%d7 ... 94-%d7%94/
10 years have passed since painting, and this is how the car looks today:
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Re: Paint schemes
The paragraph below was the paint procedure my car went through when Royce Cole restored it between 1975 and 1982. Royce was not in the car trade but was an amateur enthusiast who could turn his hand to anything he put his mind to. 30 undercoats were applied to my car which even to this day I find hard to comprehend and 2 months to let it dry in the Australian heat. The results were simply stunning and when I sold the car more than 35 years after it had been painted it still looked amazing
The painting came next. After sanding the whole of the metal with an orbital sander and hand block, I filled the rough spots with plastic body filler and sanded smooth. Deoxidene, etch primer and 30 undercoats were applied and left to dry for about eight weeks before sanding. Two light coats of colour were sprayed and the whole sanded to show up faults. The painting procedures are detailed in the Dulux publication “The Complete Refinisher” but not enough emphasis is placed on allowing plenty of time for drying of undercoats, two months if you can. I used all Dulux products, finishing in Admiralty Blue acrylic lacquer. One of my friends in the ROC helped me get the paints at trade prices, which I much appreciated.
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Re: Paint schemes
Thanks guys. All your cars look fantastic. If anything we've now got even more of a dilemma with the colour.
Our car is more or less in pieces. So I will paint the panels off the car.
Not sure about 30 coats of primer. But then again. I did a car not so long ago that had poor body work and there was a lot of prep before that first coat.
These days you can get much higher build primer so don't need so many coats.
Any pics of under the bonnet? The bulkhead. I need to decide whether that is to be body colour or something else.
Our car is more or less in pieces. So I will paint the panels off the car.
Not sure about 30 coats of primer. But then again. I did a car not so long ago that had poor body work and there was a lot of prep before that first coat.
These days you can get much higher build primer so don't need so many coats.
Any pics of under the bonnet? The bulkhead. I need to decide whether that is to be body colour or something else.
Re: Paint schemes
Bulkhead is body coloured but not to a high glossy finish
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Re: Paint schemes
Here's a few reflection shots of paint that is over 35 years old
I guess that's what 30 undercoats left to dry in the Australian heat does
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