Rover motosacoche

[MAG]

Hello,

I'm interesting in this rover:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flattank_m ... otostream/

I'm wondering from which year Rover start to use MAG engines. Someone said 1914 other 1917. Which is right ? I know that Rover use them in 1917 when they participate in concourse for a motorcycles for the Russian army. Andin my opinion they was use 1917-18. But I found a restored bike which is dated 1914 do they use MAG twins in 1914 ? Thank you in advanced

Best regards
Valentin

[GOY189]

Hello Valentin , and welcome to the forum.

As far as I have been able to find out, The New Rover Cycle Company started producing 5/6 hp twin cylinder motorcycles in 1915. These were accepted by the Russian Army, and some Instructors were sent from Coventry, UK to Archangelsk in the depths of winter. The "Russian" motorcycles were ordered with some inscriptions (usually in English) in Cyrillic script. A batch was due to be delivered in 1917, but the Russian revolution caused them to be diverted to the British Army. Unfortunately, I don't know which make of engine was used.

Hope this helps

regards

Mike Maher

[MAG]

Thanks a lot Mike,

that's great information. I know that when they introduce JAPs they also use MAGs. Is it possible to find some period photo from 1915-18 ? Thanks again for the help

All the best
Valentin

[GOY189]

I will see what I can find and let you know

Regards

Mike

[MAG]

Thank you Mike,

Hopefully that something will appear from the archives.

Best regards
Valentin

[MAG]

Hello again,

I look again at the engine numbers of all the ROVERs with MAG engine. All of them are in the begining of 44000. All of them 2CXIV. Both of this things told that they really start in 1915. 2CXIV MAGs appear 1915 to replace the 2CVIII. Both of them 750cc 6HP. I don't know why they change the abbreviation but it fact that 2CXIV appear in 1915 for a first time. And their engine numbers start from 44000. So I see that it look that Rover really start to use them in 1915. Also all the JAP engined bikes that I know are 654 or 680cc that mean 5HP. Can I say that the abbreviation 5/6 hp mean 5hp=JAP and 6hp=MAG ? i never see a 770cc JAP engined Rover.

Best regards
Valentin

[Creidal]

From what I know, Rover started using MAG engines in 1917. The 1914 models should have used different engines. If you've found a restored bike dated 1914 with a MAG twin, it might be a mix-up or a later engine retrofitted into an older frame.

[cardan]

What an interesting question Valentin posted 12 years ago!

The key is "Australia", where Rovers fitted with MAG engines were quite common during WW1; a few have survived. So far as I know, Rover did not make or sell MAG-engined bikes in the UK - please correct me if I'm wrong.

In January 1916 the Sydney business Bennett & Wood Ltd announced it had imported 350 Swiss MAG engines, mostly the 750cc inlet-over-exhaust twin model 2CXIV, and would be fitting these into Rover frames. The Rover-MAG was born.

This sounds pretty weird, but it was not entirely new. B&W also did good business with Abingdon MAGs - MAG engines fitted to essentially pure Abingdon cycle parts.

B&W's usual brand was Speedwell. They re-badged most of the machines they imported, so in Australia it's common to see old photos, adverts and surviving bikes and parts with the SPEEDWELL livery. The most common re-badged bikes (all pre-WW1) were FN, Motosacoche (the little ones with the 'motor in a bag' clipped inside the frame diamond), Abingdon King Dick, and even Rover (3 1/2 hp singles). These bikes were absolutely standard, probably imported complete and assembled, and re-liveried in Sydney, Australia. They have "standard" engine and frame numbers, so a single Speedwell Rover, from 1914 say, is indistinguishable from a 1914 Rover other than SPEEDWELL painted on the tank.

But not so with the Rover MAG. Although the cycle parts look pure Rover, down to the Rover shield on the nose of the embedded cylindrical oil tank, the frame numbers are not Rover. Instead Rover MAG frame numbers are in a special series, shared by B&W's Abingdon MAGs. I wonder if B&W assembled the frame from Rover (and Abingdon) parts? It's so hard to find details of the insider deals done between companies, especially in wartime. Presumably somewhere in the company records were contracts and invoices for shipments from Rover to Bennett & Wood in Australia... also presumably long lost now...

Anyway, I don't think the Rover MAGs were branded Speedwell. There are many Rover MAG mentions in the Sydney newspapers, but "Speedwell MAG" seems to have been most commonly associated with Abingdon-framed bikes.

So is a Rover MAG a Rover? Or is it an Australian-made motorcycle, of which there were some 600 different builders? My interest is in Australian-made bikes, and I'm counting in Rover MAG for mention as an interesting local product. Certainly it is a product that was built new in Australia during 1916-17-18, using parts from the Rover factory and engines from Motosacoche in Switzerland.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/flattank_ ... 817848026/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/flattank_ ... 963971591/

Cheers from Australia,

Leon Mitchell

[cardan]

I look again at the engine numbers of all the ROVERs with MAG engine. All of them are in the begining of 44000. All of them 2CXIV. Both of this things told that they really start in 1915. 2CXIV MAGs appear 1915 to replace the 2CVIII. Both of them 750cc 6HP. I don't know why they change the abbreviation but it fact that 2CXIV appear in 1915 for a first time. And their engine numbers start from 44000. So I see that it look that Rover really start to use them in 1915. Also all the JAP engined bikes that I know are 654 or 680cc that mean 5HP. Can I say that the abbreviation 5/6 hp mean 5hp=JAP and 6hp=MAG ? i never see a 770cc JAP engined Rover.
Best regards
Valentin

To answer Valentin's question: The 650-ish cc JAP twin was typically referred to as "5-6 hp"; the 2CIV MAG at 750-ish cc was always "6 hp". If I read "5/6 hp Rover" I'd think JAP twin, but in Australia a "6 hp Rover" would have a MAG engine.

Leon